1986 Record Mirror New Order Feature

WHICH MEMBER OF NEW ORDER LOVES BALLROOM DANCING?

Come again? Alright, do any of New Order listen to George Hamilton IV? Have any of them ever heard 'Walk On The Wild Side'? And what is it about Steven's cardigan? You thought New Order were deadly serious - oh brother, are you in for a surprise
Story: Stuart Bailie
Photography: Joe Shutter

Why don't we just kick off with the obvious here, and find out why New Order have called their fourth, and latest, album 'Brotherhood'. Peter Hook obliges with the explanation.

"Recently, all of us have been through a little bit of adversity in one way or another. But the thing was, we decided to stick together with Factory and with the Hacienda, and everything. So we thought it was quite a nice idea - what 'Brotherhood' represented. Actually staying together. Which is what we've done, against all odds really.

"Nearly all of us, including the road crew and everyone we've been associated with, have stayed together since we started, which is really nice."

Exactly. Not everyone will get too excited by New Order‘s music perhaps, but few will fault them for the way that they've conducted their business over the years. While so many of the band's contemporaries have opted to take the money and run, New Order have kept their distance from 'the whole glamorized, manufactured thing" and have channeled their profits back into Factory Records and other worthy projects. Peter continues:

"I think it‘s very important anyway to stay with the things you've been brought up with. Like Factory. I think it's important to stay with it, even if it's not as successful as it should be. It's still important to keep it together because the ideals are sound, and in this world, people's ideals seem to have got a bit seedy."

‘Brotherhood‘ then, has emerged from all kinds of rumours about the band‘s personal and financial difficulties. And with the exception of 'Angel Dust' and 'Broken Promises', when they could be accused of back-pedalling, this is a very splendid record.

It might be down to a developing confidence, or experience of whatever, but a lot of 'Brotherhood' is positively uplifting. Much of side two was apparently written by Barney at home, and it amounts to "an almost solo effort". 'Bizarre Love Triangle' is easily one of the best pieces of music you're likely to come across this year, with the band showing a maturing talent for song arranging. And if you listen too closely to 'All Day Long', you'll find that Barney's lyrics aren't all throwaway.

And then there's the already famous moment in ‘Every Little Counts' when Barney cracks up laughing over the line 'I think you are a pig, you should be in a zoo'. What was going through your head when you were singing that?

Barney: "How rotten the lyrics were. I was sick of working by that stage; we were at breaking point, so that was like a release."

Peter: "It is good, it's quite human. It was tempting to do it straight as well, but it gets to the point in a studio when you couldn't give a monkey's."

Barney: "Also, it is quite relevant, because it's more honest than when we do the deep, moody songs, 'cause we're not really like that. We do what we do for a laugh. If we do a gig, it isn't ‘to bring our songs to the public'. We do it 'cause we can get pissed and whoop it up and have a laugh. We aren't in it to be good, or to leave our mark on the world."

One of the things that struck me about 'Brotherhood' was the range of musical styles that you've borrowed from.

Barney: "I suppose we listen to a lot of different kinds of:music."

Peter: "It also keeps your Interest. Like I went to see ‘Sid And Nancy' last night, and there were three Smiths' songs on video before it And they really all sounded the same - I think our songs are more apparently different.

"Live, audiences find that easier to listen to the fact that they all sound the same. I think the way we do it, we sometimes fall flat on our asses, because we‘ve got so many different types of music. But sometimes it works really well."

On some of your songs, like ‘Love Vigilantes' and ‘Weirdo' I'd say there was some kind of a (pause) country and western influence. 'Would you agree?

Barney: “Yeah, George Hamilton IV."

Peter: "I think that's valid. When you get films like ‘The Good, The Bad And ‘the Ugly', the soundtrack was mine and Bernard's favourite LP for five years. Everything:we used to do, like ‘Sunrise' and the bass line for ‘Blue Monday', are definitely ripped off what do you call him? - Ennio Morricone. He's a really good musician, so any chance I get. . . That's the thing about the six string bass, it tends itself to that kind of ‘twang'."

'Every Little Counts' reminds me'of Lou Reed's Walk On The Wild Side'.

Barney (keeping a very straight face): "It's funny, someone else said that. I went out and bought the record when they said that, and when I played it, it does sound like 'Walk On The Wild Side'.”

Steven (a picture of innocence in his Velvet Underground T-shirt): "I've never heard it before in my life."

Peter: "It's sympathetic, so it is. If the Jesus And Mary Chain can do it, why can't we?"

I noticed you were doing some harmonies in rehearsals there. How long have you been doing that for?

Peter: "It's just started. In fact, it's still starting. It wasn't supposed to be a harmony, it depends how much you've had to drink, what kind of harmony it turns out."

Barney: "I tried backing vocals in the studio, but it just sounded like a football chant, so I thought I'd try some harmonies."

Steven and Gillian remain fairly quiet, as is their wont, although there is an occasional bluster of indignation at what a journalist recently referred to as Steven's 'ever-so-slightly camp accent'. Barney and Hooky think this is hilarious of course. "A rare insight, that was,” one of them chuckles.

"F**k off," Steven protests. "I'd like to point out that that's not true at all!"

Another 'rare insight' surfaces when I mention the latin rhythm used on 'State Of The Nation'.

Barney: "That's what Steve's been doing, ballroom dancing."

Steve: "F**k off, will you?"

Barney: "Camp old Steve. Before he joined the group, he used to do ballroom dancing. Because he did Latin American, he's quite keen on percussion. He's been quite influenced by those days."

So have you got a costume with all the satin bits?

Barney: "He put it on for us once. He's got those pants that stick to your knees, you can see everything in them."

Peter: "I like ballroom dancing, I think it's very entertaining. Did you see the rock and roll championships on the telly? They had the finals on last year, and this guy. . you know the way they wear those skin-tight suits, bright yellow and bright blue? Well, he must have sat in a drink, and he came out with this big wet patch on his arse. The poor bastard. And he won as well. So he had to come back on with this big wet patch still on his arse..."

A discussion follows as to whether Steven should wear his ballroom dancing costume for a 'conceptual' photo. Gillian then reminds everyone about his cardigan.

Peter: "Oh no, not your cardigan! Don't print that, Steven hasn't got a cardigan at all!"

Barney: "Bloody 'ell, you're supposed to be a rock and roller!”

And what about you, Barney? Do you bother much with fishing nowadays?

"I don't go often, but I like sea fishing. I had this dream last night actually. I can't remember what i was about, but I definitely had a dream about fish..."

It's difficult to imagine why these easy-going characters were once the chief focus for so many miserable, emaciated sixth formers. Granted, there was a ponderous, even solemn element in some of their stuff, but that seems to be behind them now, and New Order are deservedly gaining admirers right across the board_ Peter insists that the elitist phenomenon was never of their own doing, and he cheerfully embraces their ever-widening audience.

Peter: "It's very apparent that it's changed. In the early days, the whole cult thing was more manufactured by the press than it was by us. And the thing is, the music was very good. It was underground because it was on an indie label, and you had a big following because we were doing loads of gigs. We were playing so much with Joy Division that we had a big following even before we had any publicity, and it had that aura of being special because it wasn't rammed into you by the press. That was done afterwards.

"But it's that thing about longevity. The more you keep going, the more people you acquire. Because if you've got a record you think is good, then the first thing you're gonna do is play it to someone who doesn't know it. So people are always propagating your success like that, and the more success you get, the more you open out."

You must be all right for money these days, musn't you?

Peter: ”Pardon?"

I said you must be all right for money these days.

Peter: "Can you lend us a tenner?"

You've put a lot of money back into Factory Records, haven't you?

Peter: "That is correct. And a lot of it hasn't come out again."

But don't you sometimes feel like saying ‘no' when they put out records that won't sell?"

Barney: "That's a bit fascist though, isn't it?"

Peter: "And nearly every gig we do is a benefit; save the whale, lesbians, miners, gay pride..."

Stephen: "That's right, there's a ballroom benefit on next week, lads."