1985 06 Zigzag New Order Feature

N.O. Future

Manchester boys (John Brane and New Order de-basement Pete Hookes) cut the crap.

ZIGZAG JUNE 1985

Jesus what is this cold and miserable place I find myself in? It's Rochdale raining, Sunday afternoon. Turn a few crumbly corners till I find Suite 16 studio once known as Cargo studios until Pete Hookes (bass player and public profile person of New Order) bought it.

New Order — from cult status, Buzzcocks supports, long raincoat, Factory club, massive cult status of Joy Division days to the even more immense cult status they enjoy today (most of their audience unaware of their former incarnation). I suppose it doesn't even matter.

Why are they so sodding massive? A keen eye at the other scribes in the room gives the game away; they appeal to techno buffs who love to talk in numbers, as represented by a pompous nitwit from International Musician (Where else?) who spends his question time on REALLY interesting topics like the code numbers of this, that and other totally uninteresting RUBBISH.

They appeal to the straight lace student 'good bop' audience too — their representative is from the school of 'when were you formed?' etc; AND discerning northern music fan who can see a streak of intelligence and integrity in the band - represented by the excellent ANOTHER EMPIRE fanzine; also loved by the giggling dumbo secretary audience and the Tetley bitter slob boyfriends who can wobble to the upfront funky disco beat. I like them because they make good pop singles, keep their feet on the ground and never pretend to be anything they're not.

New Order know their limitations and genuinely don't care whether they stand or fall commercially. 

Take their new L.P. "Lowlife". It must be assured of huge sales, the press dribbling for it and no one's even heard it yet: these blokes do what they want and become millionaires: seems O.K. to me. At this very moment they are hacking their way round a world tour, this truly is the Lowlife.

Ah, here he is. Man of the moment, clomping upstairs in his jackboots. On with the interview.

Where do you think you got that 'holy' type image from? For a time people almost treated you in a saint-like manner and yet you were always very earthy? Do you think this was a by-product from not speaking to the press? 

"We didn't speak to the press for a long time because they asked us really silly questions and some journalists were really obnoxious."

I don't think Pete Hookes has realised how seriously, in a stupid way, some people took the band. The press silence certainly increased this image.

Did Factory encourage this sort of image? 

"Factory never tries and create images for their bands at all. People writing the articles pushed this image of the band to help their careers. Writing something controversial helped them more.

"We were really pissed off about the first interview that New Order did. This guy came along from Melody Maker and posed as a fanzine editor and misquoted us all over the place.

"Some of it was very hurtful and libellous."

"Would you sue for libel?' one of the other chaps asks...

"Of course not. We would break his legs though," jokes Hookes (?).

How come you don't sing anymore like you did when the band started as I thought the dual vocals were quite interesting? 

"When we started we needed someone to sing as we had an immense gap to fill and everyone did their part, but singing and playing bass was very restrictive. Also I don't consider myself a natural vocalist, like Ian (Curtis) was a great vocalist but I have to work really hard."

Don't you think Bernerd Albrecht has got a squeaky voice? 

"Can't say I've noticed."

Do you think the success of 'Blue Monday' will totally overshadow your career, and be your albatross?

"Actually I preferred 'Thieves Like Us' as a record. Having 'hits' doesn't bother us, we just put out what we feel like and if it's successful or not is irrelevant. A lot of people who like 'Blue Monday' don't realise that we have put out anything else."

You were saying before that you were into rawer types of music mentioning the fab Stooges and the Scientists. A rawer slant to future work? 

People always assume that if you use a drum machine and a sequencer that it blands you out. We are bound to have a smoother sound as we can use the studio for hours on end."

The Joy Division stuff was a lot rawer. 

"That again is due the fact that we hardly ever had any studio time to record our stuff in. As a rule the types of music I prefer to listen to are much rawer."

`What do you think of the Smiths?' some-one asks. 

"I don't like his image much but they're a pretty good band," (Raves about Johny Marr — good bloke etc.)

How strong is Factory records? These days you always hear tales of groups leaving. 

"The problem with most Factory bands is that they tend to be overshadowed by New Order, so if a reviewer doesn't like New Order then they don't like all Factory bands.

"Factory don't promote their records—they believe that promoting records is a compromise, plus I don't see the point in spending a fortune on promotion, faced with the choice of an advert or a couple of days in the studio I know which I'd pick."

These may be good points but bands still need some sort of shove to get attention.

"The Punk thing has made people more aware, more prepared to take in different sorts of music."

I wouldn't agree. Really it's closed the media channels. Media and records biz types are not prepared to be made fools of again. I would say that it was harder for 'Subversive' types of music to get through.

"Depends on what you would call 'subversive'," he replies.

Obviously New Order still see themselves as subversive. In a musical sense they may be right. The very fact that someone cares about what they are doing these days can be considered subversive.

"When we appear on Top Of The Pops chart bands feel the need to come and almost apologise to us for the crap that they put out."

There is a definite pride to New Order. There's no rush for quick sales, the bastards work at their own pace and still have the 'hits'.

We reminisce about "So It Goes", a really superb programme in 1977 by Tony Wilson which had the Banshees T.V. debut, the Pistols' "Anarchy" and other 77 standards on T.V. — a great programme.

"I don't think the bands are good enough these days to make it an interesting programme if it still existed."

New Order's records are now available in America via Quincy Jones' label. Hardly indie stuff.

"Rough Trade were so disorganised in America; chopping and changing their staff all the time. We're still with Rough Trade in the UK."

Are you still going to have one of those sleeves with blobs and indecipherable designs all over it?

"The new L.P. will even have our pictures on it."

Perish the thought.

I thought the title of "Thieves Like Us" was nicely ironic especially when I heard that the main riff was lifted from Hot Chocolate's 'Emma'.

"Well as a musician, when I listen to other people's stuff I do mentally copy things. We get accused of taking quite a few riffs but mainly the wrong ones!"

The famous six string bass that Pete uses was the last to be made in this country. The bloke who built it now works fitting kitchens. I put this in as a "Where are they now," piece. Like where is Garth from the Buzzcocks and who cares anyway?

Joy Division were the key band of the late seventies more than any other; they were the actual street band more than any of the crap pretenders or second generation punk oafs.

They didn't mean to be anything of the sort of course, but with their sombre melodies and desperate lyrics they reflected the lives of a lot of people at the time. New Order may not be quite as important now (There's nothing like chart success and Top Of The Pops to trivialise a band) but N.O. are still true to themselves and how many bands can wheel that cliche out these days without blushing?