1985 11 16 NME New Order feature

NME 16 November 1985

OUT OF ORDER

New Order's ethereal movement away from Division and denial, through temptation and confusion, has finally arrived at the classical creations of 'Low-Life' and the emotional dancebeat of 'Sub-Culture'. But has success made the taciturn Mancunians less moody and more responsive? Cries and whispers by CATH CARROLL. Shadow play by KEVIN CUMMINS

Without warning, Rob Gretton, New Order's manager, attempted to mount his new and undeniably attractive car. Adopting a semi-balletic stance, he spreadeagled across the bonnet and waved a hand-held cachet of infra-ref light at a spot above the empty back seat. Passers-by gazed anxiously. The locks on the door clicked opn - the alarm current had been at least been broken.

Channel 4's popumentary, Play At Home last year showed New Order going wild in the country and Tony Wilson's bath tub. The popular notion that they spent all their time swathed in miserabilist mackintoshes of an industrial cut is well on its way to deletion.

"All that gloom gets depressing," says Gretton.

"I don't give a fuck what anyone says," pipes a disembodied voice in the background.

Peter Hook, whose current 'look' is along the lines of glamorous viking pillager, appears to be a little more patient in answering inevitable stock questions.

"When we first started, even in the early days of New Order, we were very shy and introverted. We were worried about how we were going to perform musically. Now we're more confident."

Bernard 'Barney' Albrecht dares name a common problem.

"It's pretty boring for the reporter to write what you are really like, they have to get an angle."

As they point out, two hours of conversation doesn't give you the key to someone's personality, but it does give you a good idea about, say, their manners, sense of humour - and if you are lucky, the why and wherefore of their words and music.

New Order are polite - well mostly - and they certainly have a sense of humour, albeit obscure in parts, and they are not in the least pompous or self-important. Quite the opposite. Barney is particularly unenthusiastic about interpreting his lyrics. Actually, looking back, he was an irritating little tit at times. The meeting began bumpily with shrugs of shoulders and diplomatic interventions from Gretton.

Many people expect, er, 'deep' things of the gang, partly inspired by the tragi-drama of Ian Curtis. Barney is responsible for most of the words, although the others build on songs in the studio. There seems to be an air of strong melancholy and disillusionment on the last LP 'Low Life'. DOes this spring from any secret sorrow?

"I never question what I do. I just do it."

Well you must feel these things?

"Oh yeah. But I don't analyse. I don't do it with my brain. I just do what I think feels right."

There are some things though that sound like straight, factual accounts of everyday life. The lines from 'Sooner Than You Think' about a fight in a hotel bedroom?

"It's not something that happened."

Vengeance seems to be a popular theme ...?

No takers.

OK, what about this deep business?

"Sometimes I'm incredibly deep, mostly I'm not," states Barney.

Someone else volunteers: "Everyone thought Ian (Curtis) was incredibly 'deep'. He wasn't. Most of the time he was a complete tosspot. ... well, not a tosspot, but an average bloke.

"The words must come from somewhere, and if you want to convey something, you don't go, My stomach's a bit off today, I think I'll write something about that."

There must be a bit of romance in the boy after all. Those words in 'Sub-Culture', their new single. flooded back to me at this stage: "These crazy words of mine/So wrong they could be right." It must be horribly tedious for the group to suffer these oft-repeated probings, but apart from those who seek to suckly on the significance of the band's every bottom burp, there are those of use who appreciate a little background colour. Barney banishes all hope of this by announcing that when he is not  playing with the group, he is lying down. Fair enough.

Without wishing to be too predictable, it's time to cue noises of Music Hall gaiety and consider the long-muttered accusation of the flirting with Nazi chic. Were they leading the media another merry dance?

"I thought it was the media having fun at our expense."

"There's no grounds for it."

"It's not as if we know any French priests!"

"That man's a chiropodist!"

Ask a bloody silly question...

I'd earlier asked them why they hadn't done interviews for a while, especially with the NME?

"The honest answer to that is I don't know," replied Barney. Rob pointed out that they had been doing loads of interviews, especially abroad. Surveying the media, this is indeed true and has been for weeks. Yet around the time 'Perfect Kiss' came out, Gretton was saying that New Order did not do interviews. Admittedly for some of this time they were in Japan, but they would not even consider talking to journalists who offered to fly over there. Though it's not particularly principled to make deductions behind their backs, there is nothing else to do since they have had little to say for themselves.

Factory released 'The Perfect Kiss' at the same time as 'Low Life'. During the life of 'The Perfect Kiss' they were not doing interviews. The single did not sell very well, maybe because the LP also contained the opus. An un-souped up version of 'Sub-Culture' appeared on the LP too.

Money has to be made and the sordid business of promotions - and that includes chatting to the jolly old press - has to be undertaken to shift those units, which in New Order's case, deserve to be shifted. 'Sub-Culture' is a dandy Euro-disco toe-tapper. Maybe some of Barney's indifference comes from the fact that he would really rather be lying down than discussing the meaning of life with everyone and their terrapin.

Of course, the band are all very charming when they are not being asked to account for themselves. Peter Hook, who once threatened to punch the man from Sounds in an interview a couple of months ago, is most gentlemanlike. Steven Morris is helpful and dippily sociable. Gillian is fairly quiet and manager Rob makes several useful contributions. In fact, New Order are pleasant people - but they don't seem to want to talk about New Order.

Oh well, let's try the wonderful world of politics. New Order have done many benefits this year, for the unemployed, the Mexican earthquake fund, the miners... How do they decide on which ones to do?

"We do the ones who ask us first. They tend to come in waves. We were the first to do a miners' benefit. We didn't agree politically on the issue, but this particular benefit was staged by someone we know. The money wasn't to go to the miners themselves, but to make a film to redress the media imbalance over the issue which was in favour of the government. It was an interesting point."

"I had an interesting thought last night," volunteers Barney, softly. "If it wasn't for the horrors of World War Two, we'd all be dead now .... it put the Russians off nuclear war. All those little old Russian ladies."

Gurgles of laughter follow this isoluble pancake. Rob, typically, makes a move in the direction of logic, bless him.

"Then it can be argued that nuclear war will save the world."

Silence. A small voice says "That's got you all thinking, hasn't it?"

Yes, it has. It set me thinking about why Barney was being so deliberately obstructive, nonchalant and now indulgent. They have been doing enough interviews for him to have recovered from any nervousness.

Back to politics. The Duvet Brothers concocted a video to go with 'Blue Monday' which was included on an Enemy Within compilation, whose proceeds were destined to go to striking miners and their families. Did you give your consent to this, since you say that you don't all agree on the political issue here?

"We gave our consent after The Duvet Brothers had the done the video... they ripped off a home video that Steven (Morris) had done."

The accusation about the video didn't seem particularly serious, by the way. Don't any of you want to hop up onto a soap box and deliver your unique world views?

"Barney's already been on his!"

"I prefer the politics of music to the politics you're talking about," states Hook.

Let's board the subject of Manchester's 'scene'.

"What Manchester scene?"

"He's part of the Macclesfield scene, aren't you, Barney?"

"After touring, the last thing you want to do is go out and see bands... "

What about the way that the Hacienda has gone. Some of your profits went to finance the operation?

"The idea was that the club was helped by the people that came. It's a sad reflection on Manchester that it didn't work. Alan Wise (a notorious ex-local promoter, now managing Nico) tried it for years, but he never had a regular venue. The Hacienda provided that, but people just weren't interested."

Rob, who is still involved in managing the club to some degree judged. "The club has helped bring bands through. The Smiths, James, The Inca Babies. I read that article in NME the other week, about Manchester ... totally out to lunch! Nepotistic. There was a quote from Roger Eagle who manages The International where he said the place would make Manchester 'dance' for the first time in years. The Hacienda is a place where people have always danced. It started off as a venue but became a dance club.

"The place gave the opportunity to people to take the initiative, but they didn't. People thought 'It's Factory, they're snobby, they won't let us...'"

Is it true, Peter Hook, that you once acted as a bouncer during a Jesus And Mary Chain gig there?

"Yeah, I told you they didn't need much help!"

One hears you did a very efficient job?

"Yeah, I threw the singer out!"

"Shhhh! Shhhhh!" chorus the others.

Rob takes up the subject of The Chain.

"What they are doing now, what Alan McGhee is doing now, is very dangerous. The scene is a lot heavier now than when The Pistols started. There's been riots on the streets, more violence at football matches, they're attracting that crowd..."

By now the band have warmed up to those On The Road stories they were being so coy about earlier. Gillian beings with the trial that was Japan:

"We went to do some recording there. Their way of working is very different. We were in the studio at nmight and they had us up in the morning to do interviews. The engineers there had day jobs too! By the end of the week we were walking into walls and it took an hour to explain really basic things we wanted doing in recording."

For some reason, the party ventured to China where they enjoyed the hospitality of the 'Isolated Mountain Hotel'. Barney repeats the name and you can hear pain resonating in that voice.

"There was no street lighting, mattresses or frozen food..."

"... And all the food was live: chickens, snakes, a mongoose. They chopped their heads off in front of you."

Steven was still suffering nightmares about the fodder.

"We just got this soup all the time, sort of dishwater with a bit of privet floating on it."

The entire room bewail the damp mattresses, the All China Door-Slammimg And Shouting Festivals staged at five in the morning, the strange sandals under their beds. Later, their all-purpose assistant Terry confides "It wasn't that bad. They've stayed in worse places over here. They're going soft."

The New Order guide to the globe continues. Take picturesque Switzerland:

"All they do is sell chemicals, guns and fondues!"

"....And there's TV's all over the place so you can check your stocks and shares!"

And Belgium?

"We kept getting threatened. There was a guy in the audience waving a gun, then Barney was threatened by a bloke with a knife who was sitting in a parked car..."

"....And there was that time when Steven turned round in the hotel foyer to see Gillian being dragged off into the night by those businessmen."

It seemed New Order can't win. In Boston they had trouble for not playing an encore despite a 60 minute set. In Japan they caused trouble by playing an encore. Barney gets up to imitate the German audiences. Apparently they stand sternly, arms folded, scrutinizing the band. In London, Steven claims he had peanuts thrown at him. They fantasise about hiring a Ninja go-go dancer to ward off those and similar missiles.

Bob continues on the subject of growing violence in Britain.

"A lot of the people in the riots are just dumb. There's no political motive for them. It starts off with tension between the blacks and the police, but then all the loonies get down there too. During the  riots in Manchester, all the boys from Wythenshawe were saying "Let's go down to Moss Side tonight." That was the night they all got leathered by the police. Manchester was the only place where the police leathered the rioters."

Just then, Terry brings in the fan mail. Lots of birthday cards for Steven. Gillian complains she always gets the boring letters to open. "Dear New Order. Will you play Ludlow / Exeter / Chipping Sodbury WI?"

New Order, what does success mean to you?

"It means we can buy three new sets of strings at a time."

"And throw the old ones away!"

"... or give them to the Stockholm Monsters!"

Perhaps there's life in the shallow end of the group? What about all these tales one hears about you getting legless and blithely 'out of it' before, during, after and between gigs?

"That's probably me," chortles Rob, ever obliging. The rest look blank. Barney grabs some more of Steven't birthday cake.

"Name the names!"

"No, let's have the stories first!"

"Well, we carry tea bags with us on tour."

Gretton claims Barney often rides a bicycle to rehearsals because he's worried about a weight problem. Peter Hook is a fitness fan, he's recently changed his health club for a more upmarket one where he doesn't have to queue for machines. Things are sounding nicely un-rock 'n' roll. You must have some wild on the road stories to relate?

"There was that time when my guitar went out of tune," reveals Barney.

Hmmmm. Ever get the feeling you'd rather be somewhere else, fact fans?