1989 12 02 Manchester, Tony Wilson NME

MAD MAD MADCHESTER

• “Oh Manchester, so much to answer for", crooned Morrissey, the Bard of Whalley Bridge, in his more productive days. Who could have guessed that as Britain rolled into its annual binge of creative and festive banality that the STONE ROSES, MORRISSEY and 808 STATE would all be up there at the Top Of The Pops battling it out with the tinsel tedium of Cliff Richard, Jive Bunny and Max Bygraves.

In a move that some would describe as being as fast and shocking as the events in the Eastern Bloc MANCHESTER has re-asserted itself as Britain’s musical capital. Covering and kicking basses across all musical styles from pure dance to hippy house to indie pop, the Mancunians have proved that no other metropolis can pump out new talent quite like themselves.

Other cities like Glasgow, Sheffield, Leeds, Edinburgh and Coventry have had their moments over the last decade but none have managed to constantly redefine the way people make and dance to music like they have in the Rainy City.

From the heady days of punk when JOY DIVISION, THE FALL, BUZZCOCKS, MAGAZINE, SLAUGHTER & THE DOGS and a thousand other rough necked bands, poets, journalists and artists spewed out of the Electric Circus and off into the world. Through the early ’80s when A CERTAIN RATIO kept the population warm until NEW ORDER, the mighty FALL and the glorious SMITHS kept a stranglehold on the best independent music of the decade.

The serious pop of BIG FLAME, LAUGH, EASTERHOUSE, JAMES, THE CREEPERS, THE BODINES and FRANK SIDEBOTTOM spat at us for a while, and now the likes of MONDAYS, INSPIRALS and STONE ROSES have firmly grasped the baton and are ready to fling it into the next decade. A GUY CALLED GERALD and 808STATE may have differences that only a law court can settle but when it comes to making dance music they’re crafting the way ahead.

There are seemingly many reasons why the Manc scene has always proved so fertile. When Brix Smith joined husband Mark E’s Fall from the United States she pointed out that there was something in the air conducive to music making in the City.

As a guiding light TONY WILSONs FACTORY label and its flagship New Order have always proved a solid example of just how successful an act can be whilst remaining independent and creative. The Factory owned HACIENDA is by far the most progressive club in Britain and is only matched in its design, wit and musical policy by Mars in New York.

The city’s proliferation of fanzines, and the tight circuit of venues around Whitworth Street has meant that young Manc groovers have never needed to travel far for homespun entertainment.
And then there’s the obligatory arrogance that nearly every successful band ever to beat its way down the M6 or across the M62 is drenched in.

Over the next five pages NME burns some long grey macs and smashes down a few dark satanic mills to get to the heart of the new Manc dream. We talk to Tony Wilson about revolution, Happy Mondays about windsurfing, A Guy Called Gerald about kebab shops and a million other mouthy Mancs including Mark Smith, Peter Hook, Inspiral Carpets, and David Gedge (in exile) about the glistening Manc music scene.

James Brown

24 HOUR PARTY PEOPLE

• Vera Duckworth for PM? Bez to be made Home Secretary? It can surely be only a matter of time before Manchester is made the nation’s capital and cow-heel is the national dish. As part of the NME’s Manc frenzy we asked a host of the city’s most luminous sons and daughters to expound on the glories (musical and otherwise) of the city where men are men and only puffs drink lager. Research: STUART MACONIE, JAMES BROWN, PENNY ANDERSON and MANDI JAMES.

ANTHONY H WILSON

FAVOURITE MANC RECORD: ‘Atmosphere’

BEST CONCERT SEEN IN MANCHESTER: Lou Reed at the Free Trade Hall and the riots afterwards. Joy Division at Bury Derby Hall and the violence that followed.

FAVE MANCUNIAN: David Alliance (Manchester textile mogul and all-round rich bastard - Ed)

FAVE PLACE IN MANCHESTER: The Sunset Marquee Hotel, Los Angeles.

WHAT'S SO SPECIAL ABOUT THE PLACE: Its hospitality to immigrants.

MARK E SMITH

BAND/SONG: I don’t differentiate between Manchester bands and bands from anywhere else. But I have liked singles by New Order, Simply Red and The Sandmen.

CONCERT: I haven’t seen a good concert in Manchester since The Cramps at the Apollo circa 1985.

MANCUNIAN: Most Mancunians are OK but my favourite is my guru Fred who grossly insults his customers down at the local pub.

WHAT’S SPECIAL: It's electric and anxious at any time of the day or night without being unbearable.

PLACE: Chinatown - the buildings go from greatness to utter seediness.

TOM

(Inspiral Carpets)

BAND/SONG: 'WFL’ by Happy Mondays

CONCERT: Happy Mondays, Free Trade Hall, November ’89.

MANCUNIANS: MC Tunes and David Howes.

WHAT’S SPECIAL: There isn’t anything special.

PLACE: Eastern Bloc records.

MC BUZZ B

BAND/SONG: 'Fools Gold’ by Stone Roses and ‘Hallalujah' by Happy Mondays.

CONCERT: Public Enemy at the International in 1987.

MANCUNIAN: Me mum. 

WHAT’S SPECIAL The people.

PETER HOOK

(New Order / Revenge)

SINGLE: 'Adolf Hitler’ by The Singles. There were only 200 pressed in 1978, it’s very rare.

CONCERT: Joy Division, Factory Russell Club riot nite.

MANCUNIAN: Me mam

WHAT’S SPECIAL No Cockneys! 

PLACE: The Union in Princess St

KEVIN KENNEDY

BAND/SONG: The Temperance

CONCERT: ‘Manchester Busker’ Night at the Green Room.

MANCUNIAN: Robert Donat. A Withington lad who liked a drink. Local legend has it that he was killed by three lions: The Red Lion, The White Lion and The Golden Lion.

WHAT’S SPECIAL: It’s a long way from London.

LIZ KERSHAW

(Radio 1)

BAND/SONG: ‘A New Flame’ by Simply Red. It's a happy romantic song that doesn’t fall into the ‘I Lurve You, Baby’ trap. Simply Red are brilliant and ideologically sound.

CONCERT: Rod Stewart in 1973 when I was l4. It was my first concert and I hasten to add that this was when Rod was still making good records.

MANCUNIAN: John Cooper Clarke.

WHAT’S SPECIAL: A thriving place full of opportunities. Better nightlife than anywhere in the south, and the people have got their priorities right. Also Holland's Meat Pies, and the fact that the taxi drivers don’t say, ‘Don’t you talk funny’. It’s home.

GRAHAM GOULDMAN

(Wax, and ex-10CC, and Herman’s Hermits songwriter!)

BAND/SONG: The Smiths.

CONCERT: Cliff Richard And The Shadows at the Free Trade Hall in 1960.

MANCUNIAN: Myself 

WHAT’S SPECIAL: The people.

ANDY STEARPOINT

(New Fast Automatic Daffodils)

BAND/SONG: 'Voodoo Ray’ by A Guy Called Gerald but someone told me that Frankie Vaughn had to make a record about Stockport because he lost a bet, something like 'Stockport, My Kind Of Town'. That would be my favourite if I heard it.

CONCERT: I haven't seen it yet.

MANCUNIAN: A man called Anthony who lives in Hulme; he always carries a mirror because he thinks he's on the television. He always seems very happy though.

WHAT’S SPECIAL: It never needs ironing.

PLACE: China Town on a Sunday. It smells nice.

GRAHAM MASSEY

(808 State)

BAND/SONG: 'Z. Bend' by Edward Barton And The Ruthless Rap Assassins from the album 'Edward, Not Edward'. It shouldn't work, but does is - it's a groove, and the lyrics are brilliant.

CONCERT: Crispy Ambulance at UMIST in '80. They were at their total peak; it sent shivers down your spine.

MANCUNIAN: MC Tunes, because he oozes talent and personality. He's a superstar.

WHAT'S SPECIAL: Adversity.

PLACE: Spirit Studios, because I never see anywhere else. Home is where the heart is.

FRANK SIDEBOTTOM

BAND/SONG: Tony Wilson has a record label (you might not know this) and a nice girl from his office gave me some free records of a band called ‘The New Orders’. I like them a lot.

CONCERT: Well boss, I saw Bernard Manning rehearse once. He's got his own club you know. I once compered The Chameleons at The Free Trade Hall. That was good because I did some sleight of hand magic. You’ve either got it, or you haven’t.

MANCUNIAN: Freddie Garritty, from Freddie And The Dreamers, because he can jump. Very high. And one knee bends one way, and the other bends another way. That’s very clever.

WHAT'S SPECIAL: It’s six feet away from Timperley, so it’s very convenient. It also has some very nice buses; the 108 is my favourite.

PLACE: Piccadilly Gardens at Christmas because they have a fun-fair and lights. It’s quite like Blackpool, but you can’t see the lights, and the beach is 40 miles away. You can’t see the Tower either.

RAY LOWRY

(Cartoonist)

BAND/SONG: ‘Roadrunner’ by Stackwaddy, an ancient Mancunian band that only the very old will remember.

CONCERT: Toss up between The Rolling Stones in 1963 supporting The Everly Brothers, Little Richard and Bo Diddley at the Odeon Cinema Oxford Street or The Clash and Sex Pistols on the Anarchy tour at the Electric Circus. Or The Beatles at the Urmston Flower Show, surrounded by market produce and dahlias.

MANCUNIAN: Joseph Holt (as in Holts Brewery).

WHAT'S SPECIAL: Beer and Strangeways.

DAVID GEDGE

(Manchester-born singer)

BAND/SONG: Winter’ by The Fall from ‘Hex-Induction Hour’. It’s about a mad kid that I think Mark E Smith knew. It reminds me of someone I knew.

CONCERT: Dog Faced Hermans, My Bloody Valentine and The Membranes at the International last year. The noisiest concert I’ve ever been to.

MANCUNIAN: Bernard Manning.

WHAT'S SPECIAL: A romantic name, it never fails to rain. Mancunian egos. You've got to have an ego to dress like that. James Anderton thought he had a hotline to God. And Rusholme where there's fifty million curry houses.

SARAH CHAMPION

(Manchester Evening News Music Editor)

BAND/SONG: (1) How Soon Is Now?’ The Smiths-classic record to be miserable to when you’re out at a club (2) Buzzcocks' ‘Ever Fallen In Love...' classic about unrequited love (3) Freshies 'I'm In Love' - classic novelty record.

CONCERT: The Stone Roses at The International in February '89. Someone spiked my drink with Ecstasy, and I unexpectedly had a really nice time.

MANCUNIAN: My Mum. I know it’s shit but it’s true.

WHAT'S SPECIAL: I was born here, and it’s really exciting. It’s small, but not too small, people aren’t as obsessed with money as they are in London, people have more imagination. The Manchester music scene is good to grow up in.

PLACE: The Win Wah restaurant in China Town, and railway lines early in the morning when the sun is shining.

PAUL MORLEY

(Journalist, TV rentagob)

BAND/SONG: ‘Boredom ’ - ‘Spiral Scratch’, The Buzzcocks

CONCERT: The Fall at The Ranch, '77. A turning point

MANCUNIAN: Stephen Morris, he’s quiet.

WHAT'S SPECIAL: The young boys and their various disappointments.

TREV AND SIMON

(Going Live)

BAND/SONG: Trev: ‘How Soon Is Now?’

Simon: ‘Perfect Kiss’ 12"

CONCERT: Trev: The Pogues at The Hacienda in 1985. Pretty lively, sweaty and hot. It was fun collecting all the broken watches at the end.

Simon: The Lonesome And Penniless Cowboys at Chorlton Labour Club. These miserable old bums who play in the street, motivated by the spirit of Hank Williams.

MANCUNIAN: Trev: Paul Brophy, comedian.

Simon: Morrissey.

WHAT'S SPECIAL: Albion Market (which kept us in work as extras). Manchester Museum for the stuffed wombats. The big inflatable Father Christmas they put on the town hall and the 50p shops.

JOHNNY MARR

BAND: New Order, ‘In A Lonely Place’ (Er, isn’t that Joy Division? -Ed)

CONCERT: The Patti Smith Group at the Apollo

MANCUNIAN: Richard Beckinsale 

WHAT’S SPECIAL: Everything!

HAPPY WHEN IT REIGNS

30 THINGS YOU’RE GLAD YOU DIDN’T KNOW ABOUT MANCHESTER

• BUZZCOCKS signed their recording contract with (Manchester) United Artists Records on August 16 1977, the day ELVIS PRESLEY died.

• Former SMITHS rock god JOHNNY MARR's surname is really Maher, but he changed it to avoid confusion with the other Manchester JOHN MAHER - the BUZZCOCKS drummer.

• Top Manc DJ and T—COY frontman MIKE PICKERING and NEW ORDER’S legendary manager ROB GRETTON first met while hiding behind a hedge near NOTTINGHAM FOREST's City Ground. Both were attempting to avoid a good kicking from the local loonies.

• Apart from the forementioned cowering types, top MANCHESTER CITY fans from the world of pop include ANDY CONNELL of SWING OUT SISTER, THE CULT’S BILLY DUFFY, BARRY ADAMSON, MARK E SMITH and euphemistically named ‘comedian’ EDDIE LARGE.

• Despite the claims of NME lens-cissy KEVIN Blues’ CUMMINS to the contrary, there are a few brave folk who support Manchester’s other team (no, not Stockport County, UNITED). Included among these are (no) FUN BOY TERRY HALL, factory money-magnet TONY H WILSON and STONE ROSES bassist MANNY (as in Manny Utd).

• MORRISSEY’s new mansion is situated directly opposite a convent.

• VINYL EXCHANGE, a record shop, has the best selection of review copy LPs in the Manchester area. The owner, Joe, is a regular, and fat-walleted, visitor to the NME.

• Another Manchester record shop, the famous EASTERN BLOC, was the starting point for the biggest British single of’89, BLACK BOX’S ‘Ride On Time’. MIKE PICKERING (in yet another role, this time as A&R man for de/ Construction Records) found the Italian House flop languishing in the emporium’s bargain bin on an obscure EEC-type label, and picked it up on spec. Ten months and several million quid later, the rest is history...

• EASTERN BLOC was also the shop raided by JAMES ANDERTON’s God-driven boys in blue and prosecuted in the notorious DEAD KENNEDYS Penis Landscape shock horror.

• A GUY CALLED GERALD used to work in McDONALDS in Market Street. He does not remember MORRISSEY being a regular customer.

• Ex INCA BABY Harry is heir to the Cadbury's chocolate empire. Which is just as well as he's hardly gonna feed his kids on what he made out of the Incies is he?

• Several top Mane stars have feigned disability as a gimmick, including MORRISSEY (hearing aid), MICK OUT OF SIMPLY REDJwalking stick) and MARK E SMITH (straight-jacket). Oh, apparently Smith wasn't shamming.

• GAZ from the HAPPY MONDAYS once had a trial with MANCHESTER CITY. Got off with a fine...

• MIKE ROSSI (no relation), axeman of seminal Mane noisies SLAUGHTER AND THE DOGS, once jumped on stage during a MARC BOLAN recital at the Manchester Free Trade Hall and played imaginary guitar to ‘Metal Guru'.

• That self-same Free Trade Hall once saw United legend DENIS LAW (also pretty popular with City fans as it was his goal that put the Reds into the second Division in '74!) joined ROD STEWART onstage for a duet of 'Maggie May'.

• During their mammoth British tour this year, The WATERBOYS' trumpeter delighted the MANCHESTER APOLLO audience by doing a moving solo rendition of the Coronation Street theme.

• Among pop stars who've expressed undying love for that self same 'Corrie' (copyright: JULIAN COPE) are Copey himself, PETE SHELLEY, MORRISSEY, HOLLY JOHNSON and IAN MeCULLOCH. Such was Cope's fanaticism for the programme, that when NME did a cover story about the show, he accompanied our lads on to the set, stole a script and straightened the ducks on Hilda Ogden's "muriel” in the hope that no one would notice. Equally, NME has carried a photograph of FRANKIE GOES TO HOLLYWOOD assembled outside the ROVERS RETURN

• Among pop stars who've actually appeared on that self-same Coronation Street are DAVY JONES (of THE MONKEES). PETER NOONS (HERMAN’S HERMITS). GRAHAM FELLOWS (JILTED JOHN), FAST NEW AUTOMATIC DAFFODILS (as extras) and MORRISSEY (on a magazine cover in The Kabin!).

• The godhead STONE ROSES, the miserable BUZZCOCKS FOC and the groovy old HACIENDA share a dark secret. All were managed, at the most unsuccessful periods of their careers, by the same man(cunian), one HOWARD JONES (no relation again).

• ERIC GOULDMAN and ERIC STEWART of sickenlngly successful '70 superstars 10CC penned the MANCHESTER CITY theme hit 'The Boys In Blue' (and its astonishing B-Side ’Funky City’!). Gouldman is also the maniac responsible for 'East West', the B-Side of MORRISSEY s new 12". (Seriously, is this good stuff or what!!???)

• Not all Manchester-connected pop events are roaring successes shocker! When FACTORY cash-hoover TONY WILSON and ZOO RECORDS 'mastermind' BILL DRUMMOND organised a joint showcase for their bands in Leigh, Lancashire, under the banner ‘Factory Meets Zoo Halfway’ they forgot that Leigh is in the arse-end of the outskirts of nowhere and that it was a no-trams public holiday. Consequently, despite a bill that included JOY DIVISION, ECHO AND THE BUNNYMEN, THE TEARDROP EXPLODES, OMD, ACR and THE DISTRACTIONS the event was attended by less than 200 hardy souls.

• In 1976, the self-same TONY WILSON’S obsession with The Boss was such that his dodgy mates on MANCHESTER UNITED s crumbling Stretford End actually called him 'Brooce'. He presented Granada Reports wearing a ‘Born To Run’ T-shirt over his shirt and tie for three months!

• Long time Wilson sidekick and ex-NME stalwart PAUL MORLEY once managed useless punk band THE DRONES and produced their '77 EP ‘Temptations Of A White Collar Worker' which included their Queen's Jubilee tribute, ‘Corgi Crap’.

• In PETER HOOK OUT OF NEW ORDER’S studio, Suite 16, the pin-up is of GILL SMITH, gorgeous pouting former press officer for not so gorgeous or pouting SIMPLE MINDS and THE SMITHS - in full S&M gear!

• There is, sadly, a link between top groovers HAPPY MONDAYS and crap pop 'classic' ‘Lily The Pink’ by THE SCAFFOLD. Scaffold mainstay ROGER McGOUGH and Mondays manager NATHAN are, gulp, father and son!

• Cock rock legend PHIL LYNOTT's mum used to run a rock ’n' roil guest house in Whalley Range. Still does for all we know.

• King (Kong) Of Comedy, BERNARD MANNING did a medley of SMITHS songs (including ‘Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now’) on JONATHAN ROSS’ Last Resort.

• THE RITZ, topist Manchester venue, was the site of a memorable one-off gig when a band called THE NOSEBLEEDS supported MAGAZINE. Among The Nosies numbers were a pubescent BILLY DUFFY of THE CULT and a starstruck MORRISSEY.

• A recent edition of national magazine Security Review voted the chaps who do their stuff outside THE HACIENDA Britain's Best Dressed Bouncers’. True!

• The luckless CRAIG GANNON was kicked out of THE HACIENDA by Britain's Best Dressed Bouncers’. True!

• The luckless CRAIG GANNON was kicked out of THE SMITHS because militant veggie MORRISSEY misheard his name. ‘I'm not working with anybody called ‘Gammon’. ..’ (this last one, we admit, lacks that unmistakeable ring of authenticity...)

Research, lies, inuendo and hearsay by James Brown, Kevin Cummins and Danny Kelly.

TONY WILSON  

• Ace faces or sartorial disgraces? Man with a disco TONY WILSON talks to STEVEN WELLS and SHAUN RYDER of HAPPY MONDAYS to JAMES BROWN about FACTORY, fashion, and Northern Revolution. Picture: KEVIN CUMMINS

"Mark E Smith and Morrissey? They’re like Norman Tebbit and Geoffrey Howe. They’ve played their part and they’re out.

“Manchester is Thatcher, right, right, and it no longer needs these people. They've played their part and they're gone. Bye bye!"

You bastard, Tony Wilson. You unutterable cad. But now is not time for sentiment, for cooing over the old folks, buying them mint humbugs and helping them across the road. We are, he tells us, in the midst of a REVOLUTION! In a three hour conversation Wilson uses the word “revolution" 8,923 times.

“I had this massive row with Malcolm McLaren once. He said the next revolution wouldn't take place in music. He was wrong.. We had a top ten of complaints made about playing Acid House on The Other Side of Midnight. Number six was that it wasn't as political as 1977. Number seven was that it wasn't as political as 1967. Bollocks!"

So Manchester, the city that saved Punk Rock, must be Petrograd AGAIN. So why not Liverpool?

“Liverpool's tragedy. Liverpool's lonely f---ing tragedy is that anyone who makes it leaves. I think McCartney, Harrison and Starr should be asked the question: Why did you never do anything for your  f---ing hometown? All scousers are the same..

A REVOLUTION, dude. So Factory are the Bolsheviks and Tony Wilson is Lenin.

‘Actually I rather see myself as Willie Whitelaw."

We are sat in a dangerous wines bar in Soho and Tony Wilson is making an Oscar acceptance speech.

"I mean I'm on the cover, right? Which is ridiculous! I mean I agreed to it because it's very flattering. Kevin Cummins is the only photographer who can take a picture of my double chins and make me look human and I also appear next to Shaun Ryder who is one of my heroes. But why me? It's ’cos I'm on TV. This whole ida of being a figurehead I find very amusing.”

The Sex Pistols played Manchester in June 1976.

"From that moment onwards Manchester has been spinning.” 

Nothing to do with Tony Wilson AT ALL!

"The Hacienda, which it so vital to what is going on now, had nothing to do with me at all! I never wanted a f—ing club. The Hacienda wouldn't have existed for the last three years if Erasmus, my partner, hadn’t brought in Pearl Mason from Rock City. I have nothing to do with any of it really. I just know these people.

“This Russian TV crew interviewed me three weeks ago -’How does it feel to be the leader of all these young people?' I said, ‘Well, the point about me is. I'm a follower. My role in Manchester is that I'm the guy who's on TV.  I'm just a friend of the 117 people who make all this happen'. People in the North-west got The Sex Pistols, they got The Buzzcocks, they got The Clash, they got Elvis Costello, they got Blondie before anybody else in the country on So It Goes. Now they're getting everything first on The Other Side Of Midnight, again from me. That’s my only real job in Manchester. ."

Are you with us so far? Bollocks to punk rock, matey, this is the Mank Rock Dance REVOLUTION and Tony Wilson is its Roger Mellie. BOLLOCKS! scream a million readers. What is this motorgobbed situationist breadhead with his credit cards and his £900 suit talking about? How can we have a revolution without The Alarm?! Settle down! Stop crying you Mozzer fans! Listen up, suckers.

"I'll tell you what the difference is. All the movements in rock up until this one have been middle class, right? McCartney was middle class, The Beatles were middle class, The Clash was middle class, the hippies were middle class. This thing that's happening in Manchester now, this movement now is the only one created by the working class. That is what is so f—ing amazing. The working class - the lower working class...

Lumpen?

“Yes! Lumpen. When John Cales was asked to produce the first album of the Happy Mondays he said. 'What are they like then?" So I said that that the best way I can describe them, so you know what you're letting yourself in for, John, is scum.They are f—ing scum.

'They got upeet when they heard that. 'We're not scum! I said lads, I said press officer Dave Harper was wandering down the street with two of you looking for the studio and one of you said, ‘Oh, it must be around here, that's Paul's vomit'. A big disgusting pile of vomit! Don't tell me you're not scum..'"

Well, qualify that to exclude the greasy, stinking plebs of 1956 - Elvis was no art student - and maybe he's got a point. Complaining that House isn’t punk is like complaining that fish aren't tea trays. What is happening around the Manc bands is that, as Wilson puts it, the Berlin Wall between dance and rock has come smashing to the ground.

“This is the year that rock and dance finally meet. Blondie’s ‘Heart Of Glass’ was the moment that punk and disco suddenly found they weren't at war. I mean disco was always the enemy, right? We were wrong, we were so f—ing wrong. And this ie the year when it's all changed. Look. Dance is the most snobbish of rock cultures. Absolutely snobbish. Seriously snobbish And now, for the first time since disco started in '65, a record has been a cult dance hit and then goes six weeks at No l and the hippest, most cultish clubs are still playing it. The first time ever! This was mentioned to me by a girl from Sunday Correspondent ...

"The feeling that if loads of people buy it there must be something wrong with it - I don't see it! I see it as the power of a real art form!”

Backstage at the PIL/New Order gig the Prince of PUNK aka Lickle John Boy Rotten, runs off-stage flinging spunk, sweat and spittle all around him. He sees Tony Wilson and looks away, embarrassed. He tries not to say anything. Oh where oh where is The Ladybird Book of Punk Etiquette to help him? Rotten is now only inches away from Wilson and he takes the easy way out. He turns and screams:

“F—OFF WILSON! F—OFF YOU F---ING C—!"

"I took it as a real compliment," says Wilson.

OK, on with your thinking caps. Can an alternative culture survive without building an alternative economy, an tnfrastructure of record companies, distributors and such? Does capitalism tolerate an alternative economy? Does it f—! And is Factory the Virgin of the ’90s? Where are your principles, Tony Wilson? Have you SOLD OUT, maaaaan? We haven't got a bad case of the Bransons, says Wilson. No mouldy pickle at the Fac, dude, we get POP PERESTROIKA!

'I don’t think we’re trying to do two things at once, I think for six years we did one thing and for the last three years we’ve done the other. We didn't take singles off albums, and we were the only record company for many years that didn't hype. The only one.

"The worst thing we've had to throw away, of all our ideals, is that we never used to use contracts. I mean we'd build a group, right? I mean managers are as thick as shit, total dolts. We'd get their group to number three in the indie charts and the manager gets this great big erection.

"What can he do with it? The group are on stage, the group are doing interviews, the group are on TOTP. So what can the manager do? The only thing he can do is do a deal with a major. So they all go. It happened every time! So we had to throw that part of our ideology away. That was the only painful thing ...“

And what is the real difference between Tony Wilson and Richard Branson?

“It’s a great question. He's a lot richer. I’m a lot better on TV. I think the difference is that for him profit is the bottom line, he lives for profit, everything is geared for profit. It's the first thing on the first page, for us it's somewhere halfway down page three..

In 1968, that year of riots, strikes and revolutions, Wilson was a long-haired hippie student at Cambridge, shaking his love beads and rattling his brain, a doped-up. dabbling dilettante, a scragbag scumbag situationist enemy of the state.

There was a massive demo against the Vietnam war. When the march got to Trafalgar Square hairy radicals hung off the lions screaming at the demonstrators to turn left and ATTACK the US embassy. Wilson turned right, with the peaceniks and the nice'os, towards the alternative and peaceful demo in Hyde Park.

Now, says Wilson, I'd attack the embassy. Really? Look, says Wilson (salary: £33,000), he pats my comfortable wine bar armchair. “That's an armchair. And these are only armchair opinions...”

In 1989, this year that has seen the death pangs of f— you-jack Fatcherism, a crushed revolution in China, an uprising in El Salvador, the working classes of Eastern Europe kicking state capitalism in the nuts with gusto ... CHANGE IS IN THE AIR.

It feels like time for a rock revolution. It feels like '67. It feels like '76 but it won’t be the same. Punk wasn't Haight 'n' peace 'n' luv Mkll, man. THAT WASN'T THE POINT! And London, as ever, stumbles blindly in Manc Fester's wake.

Small cities, says Wilson. Memphis for the fusion of black and blue-collar white, Liverpool for the birth of the teenager, San Francisco for the hippies, MANCHESTER for punk and MANCHESTER for whatever the f— it is that's going down NOW!

Tony Wilson reckons he could have been bigger and better than Jonathan Ross. There's some bitterness about the TV career shackled by his Factory obligations. “My psychiatrist asked me whether my immaturity bothered me," says Wilson.‘I told him that in this industry it’s an asset...”

Today he's sat in Manchester and he has this massive big erection, see. He looks out of the window and he sees the empty warehouses, the derelict factories and all the smashed wreckage of the city's manufacturing base.

Then he turns to the stage to watch what he claims is yet another brilliant Manchester band. Them empty factories, that's what we did then, he thinks, this is what we do now. Nowhere in the world, he thinks, nowhere is someone sat listening to the next revolution...

"This is political. Of course this is political. It's young people taking drugs and playing loud music that their parents hate. You don’t get more political than that."