1988 07 02 Stephen Street NME

HATE MAIL

The Smiths were "like a life-support machine" to Morrissey. Without STEPHEN STREET - co-writer/producer of 'Viva Hate' - it's conceivable that Les Miserable himself would either be six feet under or reconsidering his career in flower arrangement.
LEN BROWN (assisted by knobbly-kneed namesake James) met The Smiths' fan turned saviour. Picture: DEREK RIDGERS.

I imagined Stephen Street would be old and plug ugly. Why else would the famously insecure Mozzer force himself to appear naked and unchaperoned on Top Of The Pops?

Yet before me sits a disturbingly youthful-looking denim-clad character; a cross between Smiths clone - stick some NHS specs on him and dig those comfortable shoes - and Face/Blitz style fash boy. True, he does chunter on about ‘vocal levels’, ‘samplers', 'string lines’ and ‘rolling toms’ (a tremendous strain on the eyelids), but frankly he is not at all what I expected.

Most alarming, the man who co-wrote ‘Viva Hate’ with Steven Patrick Reggae-Is-Vile Morrissey is wearing an Island Reggae Greats t-shirt!

It soon transpires that the Street urchin - a far-from-rotting 28 years old - joined Island Records in the early ’80s and rapidly rose to be House Engineer (“mainly dance-orientated stuff, Skipworth & Turner remixes, that sort of thing”). His association with The Smiths began in ’84 when they recorded ‘Heaven Knows I’m Miserable Now’ at Island.

“I always remember Johnny asking me on the first session if I’d heard of them. When I said ‘Yes’ I think he was genuinely pleased they'd found an engineer who liked them.”

Street was involved in almost every subsequent Smiths product. He saw them survive The Queen Is Dead' traumas of Andy Rourke’s heroin addiction, the hiring and firing of second guitarist Craig Gannon, and was finally a key witness as co-producer during the sessions that fermented the collapse of The Smiths.

MANCHESTER DISUNITED

In Spring ’87 The Smiths were recording ‘Strangeways, Here We Come' their last studio LP for Rough Trade. Co-produced by Stephen Street, Morrissey and Johnny Marr, it became the band’s final testament; by the time of its September release Marr had quit. During the recording of ‘Strangeways ...’ Marr and Morrissey ceased to communicate. Was it to do with their very different lifestyles?

“Johnny was on a different hourly cycle to Morrissey at that time. Morrissey tends to get up in the morning and goes to bed at night whereas Johnny was waking up very late. There wasn’t much contact, except between five o’clock and whenever Morrissey went to bed.”

Was it because of Ken Friedman’s presence as manager?

“The tension started because Morrissey for some reason started to fall out with the ideas Ken had - that was the only problem I saw argument-wise during ‘Strangeways ...’. When Ken first came down he was around as manager but, by the end of it, he'd got the message that Morrissey didn’t want to be managed by him anymore. It wasn’t tension about the album, more tension about the future.

“I got on fine with Ken. He’d pop his head into the control room to see how things were going but most of the time he’d be on his computer or his phone. I think now people are under the impression there were lots of arguments in the studio but there weren’t, it was good fun. By the end Ken had gone back to Los Angeles and the only problem was this business thing in the background.”

When did you realise The Smiths were breaking up?

“Two weeks after we’d finished ‘Strangeways.. .’We went into the studio to do some B-sides and Morrissey didn’t turn up. I got there, Mike Joyce and Andy Rourke were there, but Johnny phoned up from Manchester ’cos word had got round that Morrissey wasn’t coming.”

Is that when Johnny decided to go and record with Talking Heads?

"Johnny’s friendly with Steve Lillywhite (who remixed ‘Ask’) and his wife Kirsty McColl (who sang on 'Golden Lights') and as Steve was doing the Talking Heads album he asked Johnny to come and play. After the B-side fiasco, when Morrissey didn’t turn up, Johnny said, ‘F—k it! I’m off to Paris’.

“I think Johnny must have been at breaking point by the end of ‘Strangeways...’. Morrissey’s a very private person and it’s admirable in some ways, but you can only spend so many years worrying about someone; worrying whether or not you’re making them feel included enough. After a while it becomes a bit wearing and maybe that’s what happened with Johnny.”

I KNOW IT'S OVER

Initially The Smiths intended to continue without Johnny Marr, hence Morrissey’s statement that “whoever says The Smiths have split will be spanked with a wet plimsoll”.

“Morrissey received a cassette from Ivor Perry (ex-Easterhouse, Cradle guitarist), thought he’d like to try it out with Mike and Andy and I was asked to oversee it. We had two days booked in the studio but only did one. I think it really hit them it wasn’t going to be the same. Mike said to me, ‘I can’t wait for Johnny to walk through the door and for everything to be alright again’. I think it hit Morrissey more than anyone else. The following day I got a phone call from Mike saying, ‘Forget it, it’s off. Morrissey had gone AWOL; Mike and Andy went back to Manchester.”

It was at this point that Stephen Street humbly proffered his own compositions; not as Street/Morrissey solo material but, as B-sides to back the ‘Strangeways.. .’ singles and to be recorded by Morrissey, Rourke, Joyce and a replacement guitarist.

“I thought I’d help out. I sent Morrissey a cassette of demos with a letter saying, ‘Chances are you won’t like them but...’. I gotthe impression from Mike and Andy, when I told them, that I shouldn't have interfered but the cassette had already gone.

“At best I was hoping for him to say, ‘OK I’d like to use them as B-sides with Mike and Andy’ and off we’d go. But I got a letter back from him saying, 'I don’t see any point in continuing The Smiths, would you like to make a record with me?’ I think the idea was still to use Mike and Andy but Mike put in his notice that he was leaving The Smiths. I think he got wind that it was going to be a Morrissey thing rather than a Smiths thing.”

Thus the “bedridden” disappointed Mozzer received demos of melodies that became 'Angel, Angel, Down We Go Together', ‘Bengali In Platforms’ and ‘Everyday Is Like Sunday’.

“When he wrote back saying he'd got some great ideas I thought it was just going to be a single. But when he came round to my place and put vocals on my four-track demo it started sounding like it could really work.”

THEATRE OF 'HATE'

“I think it would be very presumptious for me to say he was sure it would work. He was worried. We did the first session and EMI still weren’t happy about me doing the whole album. But at the end of the first week we had ‘Suedehead’ ready, and they really liked it, so we got down to work. ”

How did Vini Reilly come to be involved in the project?

“I introduced Vini to Morrissey which was really frightening because they're both strong moody characters. I thought, ‘This is either gonna work or it'll be embarrassing'. Fortunately they got on really well.

"I’m not like Johnny where I could rely on technical ability to make a mediocre song sound really great. I’m not saying Johnny did that but I’ve got to write a sound song without any great ability. I was worried people would say, ‘Oh the songs are OK but the musicians aren’t very good’ because Johnny’s really been put on a pedestal as far as guitar players are concerned.

“That’s why I’m so pleased Vini performed well. He would come up with weird ideas; his guitar playing on ‘Maudlin Street’ gave us a different angle and also his Spanish guitar on ‘Margaret’.”

Street’s main problem in crafting songs for Morrissey was how to sound original and different from The Smiths while incorporating the great groaner’s familiar style. He had the advantage of being free to make the break with The Smiths guitar-dominated sound and flex technological muscles, but he also acknowledges “there’s a certain kind of music Morrissey likes writing to.

“You can find yourself going down the same roads Johnny went down. That’s why, when I did ‘Maudlin Street' and ‘Break Up The Family’ I wrote from a percussive loop. Morrissey does ask me to write in different styles, he looks to stretch himself because he knows if he doesn’t do it now, as a solo artist, he'll never do it. When I gave him ‘Break Up The Family’ I thought he wouldn’t like it because it's got soully overtones. But he really liked it and wrote back to say he’d got lyrics for it.”

Do you think Morrissey was starved of variety by Johnny Marr?

“No, Johnny would always come up with ideas but I suppose when you’re as famous as The Smiths there's great pressure. Mind you The Smiths could try any style, because of Morrissey’s voice. They were like The Beatles in the sense that whatever they tried it was unmistakeably their sound.

“But I did get the impression on ‘Strangeways.. .’that Johnny wasn’t supplying Morrissey with as much material as Morrissey would’ve liked. As if they were all pretty tired after the tour of America and Johnny didn’t write much.”

Despite the positive reviews, the Number One LP success of ‘Viva Hate’ and the Top Ten placings for ‘Suedehead’ and ‘Everyday's Like Sunday’, Morrissey himself recently expressed disappointment with the result. Why?

“Morrissey sent me a card saying, ‘Don’t read the interview’. I think he realised after he’d done it that he’d been a bit negative about things. The idea that he didn't want ‘Suedehead’ to be the single is utter rubbish, he was just as excited as anyone else about releasing it. And saying 'Viva Hate' wasn’t a success is a complete load of bollocks, it surpassed many things he’s done in the past.”

Wasn't ‘Disappointed’ (‘Everyday’ B-side) a rip off/pisstake of ‘How Soon Is Now?’?

“People say that but only because of the chugging guitar. I think it’s more like The Fall or Siouxsie And The Banshees, with the drummer leading it along. I deliberately tried to stay away from those rocky fast/mid tempo songs on the album but, afterwards, we felt we were missing them. So I wrote some but, as soon as Morrissey sings, it's bound to sound like The Smiths.”

Weren’t you really worried about the response to ‘Viva Hate’? Didn’t you expect lot of flak for trying to follow in Johnny Marr’s footsteps?

“I was really scared, and I think Morrissey was as well. After the LP was finished in December he went through a low period in January and really didn’t want the album to come out.

“When you think about it, The Smiths broke up in July ’87, I didn’t get word from Morrissey that he wanted to work with me till September, and we finished ‘Viva Hate’ in December. That’s bloody good going! It just happened and I know it won’t happen quite as magically again.”

MORRISSEY PUMPS IRON SHOCK!

“People say he can be difficult but I think I do my best work with him because he really inspires me. He always tends to amaze me lyrically because his timing’s totally different to anyone else.

“I’d write a song thinking, ‘that’s the verse, that’s the bridge and that bit’s the chorus’. ‘Disappointed’ is a perfect example because he chose to sing over the little bridge bits and I had to chop it and change it all around. He’s really very special. I hate to use the word 'genius’ but I do regard him lyrically as that.”

Is he as miserable to work with as he’d like us to believe?

“No he's not miserable at all, he’s really good fun to be around. He’s not extrovert but, during the ‘Viva Hate’ sessions there was some very sharp dry Northern wit flying back and forth over the dinner table with Vini. We had a good time during ‘Strangeways...’ and when we went back to The Wool Hall for ‘Viva Hate’ I think Morrissey was worried he’d miss the Smiths as a group of lads together.

“In fact, I think he felt more a part of it because during ‘Strangeways.. .’he’d go to bed about midnight and the rest of the band would all-night party. With us, we started and finished earlier. It wasn’t like, ‘OK, Morrissey’s gone to bed let’s have a good time lads!' He seemed happy. He actually started going down to the gym, to the Health Club near the studio. He really got into it, enjoyed it, doing the old weights and stuff!”

Did he really go dancing with Vini Reilly in Bath?

“Yeah that was a great night. We all went down the disco and had a few drinks. And this girl went over to Morrissey and got him dancing. I couldn’t believe it... dancing to some normal dancetrack. I nearly keeled over.”

But he’s prone to disappearing tricks, as he was during The Smiths’ lifetime. Don’t you get annoyed when he fails to turn up or keep in touch?

“When it first happens you tend to get worried about it and think’ ‘I should have heard from him by now’. But you come to accept that he doesn’t feel the need to phone you constantly. He might suddenly, out of the blue, call and say, ‘OK I’ve got these songs can we book some studio time?’ That’s the way he works but I never presume I will work with him again.

“I’d like to think there’ll be another album this year, I’d like to try out new ideas, but you’ve got to take it a step at a time with Morrissey. You can’t suddenly get him to do an Acid House thing."

Doesn’t it piss you off that you’re still in the shadows? That most people think you must be some spotty, grim-looking Glitter Band figure or you would be out there in the spotlight as Johnny Marr was?

“When we were doing the album I said to Morrissey, ‘It'd be nice to be seen doing something with you because I’m sure people think I’m some kind of Trevor Horn, Stock Aitken & Waterman middle-aged producer in the background’. Afterwards I thought, ‘Oh no, you’ve pushed it a bit, Stephen’ but I want it to be known I’m not just some old button pusher!”

You could end up playing Bernie Taupin to Morrissey’s Elton John - The Man In The Iron Mask.

“It’s not my desire to be like that. It’s up to him. I was hoping he’d take a band on Top Of The Pops but there isn’t really a full-time band, that’s the problem. But I was disappointed, it was a childhood dream to be on TOTP."

Do you think you’ll ever perform live with him?

“He’s got such fond memories of The Smiths, he’s got it into his mind that he can never match that again. I don’t agree. I think, as long as we’re careful, people’ll love him whatever he’s doing. Maybe it’ll happen after the second album, when we’ve got more songs. But I think he’s worried about not capturing the same spirit of The Smiths live. Going out with me live would be the full stop at the end of The Smiths’ sentence.”

VIVA MOZZER

Whether or not you see Stephen Street as Morrissey’s saviour or as a poor substitute for Johnny Marr, it’s certain that without Street’s humble intervention last year The Mozzer would have spent a lot longer languishing in a pit of despair. He has, at least, been instrumental in the success of Morrissey as a solo star.

But will it last? Surely the notoriously paranoid singing vegetarian won’t take kindly to Mr Street’s ‘unauthorised’ chat with NME?

“Chances are I’ll get an angry letter from him, I can’t tell. I don’t think I’ve said anything bad about him. I know Morrissey did control what was said by The Smiths. I think Mike once did an interview and Morrissey didn’t like the sound of it; after that Mike didn’t do any more interviews."

Of course, if the partnership ends tomorrow ‘Viva Hate' has enhanced Street's reputation “not just because it’s with Morrissey but because it’s a great success”. Street’s now working with The Psychedelic Furs (“they want to regain their original sound”), The Railway Children (“a single remix from their new album”), and Vini Reilly’s next offering.

He’s also producing Sandie Shaw’s LP which includes a cover of the ‘Viva Hate’ out-take ‘Please Help The Cause Against Loneliness’: “There’s also a new Jesus And Mary Chain track called ‘Cool About You’. The rest of the songs are compositions by myself and Chris Andrews who she wrote with back in the ’60s.”

And if it did all end tomorrow, if Morrissey finally disappeared or failed to call, will Stephen Street be surprised?

“No, because I still get the feeling, at the back of my mind, that they’re going to reform at any time. Since that NME interview I’ve always been aware I can’t sit back and expect to always be working with Morrissey. I think if Johnny just phoned him and they somehow resolved whatever differences they’ve got, they’ll reform. But when? I can’t say.”